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Author Topic: Haven plan variations  (Read 212 times)

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Haven plan variations
« on: August 29, 2017, 04:20:38 PM »
I Am building a mold for the lead keel for the Haven 12.5 and found the station measurements are not equal. My assumption is that they should all be equal but the plan call outs vary by as much as ".


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Re: Haven plan variations
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 04:17:04 PM »
Here is the VARIATION DOCUMENT.  Hope it helps.
1.)  Keel bolt locations:

...the study plans in the construction book, show different lead keel bolt locations than do the construction plans. The lead weight cut out dimensions for the centerboard are also specified differently in the construction book vs the construciton plans. No big deal but thought it worth mentioning.... Paul 11/9/01

2.)  Floor Timber 16:

I've taken to looking at both versions (book and plans) and deciding which looks best (e.g. floor timber #16 should obviously be 1-1/8" instead of 7/8").... Bill Sterling 1/9/01

3.)  Molds 1, 2, 3

Help!!! If I set up molds 1, 2, and 3 according to the plans the planks will not come to lie in the stem rabbit! I have checked and rechecked my molds, the stem and the setup. I have bent on all frames (13/16" square), set the molds up with 7.5" between station faces, installed the first four frame timbers, set up the stem on the proper construction baseline, measured and re-measured the floor timber heights, marked the station faces on the stem as indicated on the drawings, braced the molds at 90 degrees to the construction base board and (if I continue without significant modificaiton) the planks will still land almost 1/2" above the bearding line!!! Is there an error in the mold design? Has anyone else encountered this?..........Bill Sterling posted 08-08-2001

The issue is worst for frame #2. Grab some paper and draw the stem in cross section pointing up. The stem is 1.75" wide and at station 2 the bearding line of the rabbit starts 1.25" from the bottom of the stem in cross section (I get 1.25" from the full scale stem plans along the #2 station face). OK...the width of the mold where it sits under the stem is shown on the full scale mold plans to be about 2.25" (1.125" from centerline to mold edge). If you draw a line from the upper edge of the mold (where it lies just under and slightly out from the bottom edge of the stem cross section) down and out at the mold angle (about 20 degrees?) and then add the frame thickness to this (13/16) and then project where the inside of the plank will fall on the stem (draw line upward from outside of frame), you'll see it lands almost 0.5" out of the rabbit! Sorry I don't have a picture. I'm about ready to just take the mold apart and modify it so it'll fit. If I shave down the frame it'll be only 3/8" thick at the stem...that's no good. I expect to shave some but not more than half the frame! Thanks big time for your help. I've been pondering this for months as I set up and built various components and I'll soon go mad!.....Bill Sterling posted 08-09-2001

I did wind up modifying molds 1 - 3 so the planks would land in the rabbit. Since then I've noticed that the transom bevel will need some additional wood removed toward the inside of the bevel if the shear plank is to lie flush. I've also heard you should leave the stem bevel proud to receive the stem band width and that its best to make your ballast mold from a template taken directly from the keel to avoid additional milling of the ballast. That's all I know of for now!! I've nothing at all against the plans or book...its just important to note that you have to think for yourself. In the recent book entitled "Wooden Boats", the author refers to the concept of "workmanship of risk" vs. "workmanship of certainty". Its an interesting bit of philosophy and it speaks to why we are so thrilled to be part of the adventure of building this boat. Its not a certainty nor IMHO was the book intended to make it certain, therefore, you can not rely on it to be your mother. This boat and all wooden boats are life..adventure...risk. Just like sailing will be! But I wax too serious...

Bill Sterling 11/16/01

I, too, had problems with frames 1 and 2. I spent most of yesterday grinding the port side of these two frames so that the planking will fall into the stem rabbet. I simply added a 9/16" spacer on the end of my 1/4" batten, then a small "plank" on the spacer to simulate the thickness of the frames. I ground away the molds until the underside of the "plank" sat in the rabbet. Today I tackle the starbord side. The transom is next.Paul Scott 11/18/01

I had poor fit conditions on molds 1-3 (planking missing the rabbet line, also floor timber #20 too wide at keel / Keel pattern too wide for floor timber at 9 & 10. I re-set the molds with a laser to ensure proper height off baseline (Worked great). All mold height from baseline was correct. Stern bedog bolt location poor, I had to recess stern bolt to prevent grinding half of it away,( better to have full strength, than half a bolt) There was a mistake made in the construction book- the centerboard trunk was too narrow ( no material for garboard plank to lie on) the blue print was widened at the beddogs, but they failed to relocate the bolt, this can be seen in the book. These are some of the small problems.

In summary we should give credit to the Manual for doing a good job ( As it was a first draft)and not a fool proof guide. Steve W. 1/4/03

4.)Height above the construction base line  (Centerboard)

I did have trouble getting proper height above the
construction base line but only aft of the centerboard box. A couple stations were about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch too low. I didn't dare raise the whole the whole station, frame, floor timber and all for fear of disturbing the fairness of the hull. Should I simply detatch the frames from the molds (I used drywall screws to hold them down, not the lugs as described in the book)? Thank you!  Nick Hyde 9/25/2000

Paul posted 09-25-2000 07:27 PM
Nick, I'm not at home, so I don't have access to my construction log. But, I do know I talked with several Haven builders who said the top of the 'as installed' floor timbers didn't come out to the dimensions given on the plans. In the 'how to' manual, I believe the advise is given, that you should shim, if necessary to hold the fore and aft height above the construction base. I had to install a few shims in mine to get it to work out just right. If you would like to email me, please feel free and I will share all my mistakes with you beforehand so you won't have to make as many. I certainly reveived valuable advise from Don, in Texas. I can tell you, I must have taken that CB trunk out a zillion times before getting it just right. Take care.

To the hardest workingest boatbuilding fraternity of the web:
I have a question please. I have done a reasonably good job of molding, framing, and applying the floor timbers (several repeated rechecks of heights from the baseline), but now after setup #2 I am finding that the centerboard trunk is "sunken" too far into the boat for the keel to sweep over with a fair curve from the foremost stations to those behind the trunk. The trunk needs to be lifted off the floor timbers by 1/4" all along those frames (?11 - 16) to meet the keel pattern overhead. Because the weight of the keel and ballast is carried on the floor timbers, I must either shim the latter to make wood to wood contact with the logs or face the cruel task of redoing the timbering on all those stations. Of course, I would have detected and avoided this if I had put the centerboard trunk into the first setup with an overlying keel pattern like he shows in the book... but here I am now. I went back to the plans and reconstructed where the construction baseline should be on the sideview of the boat and it looks to me as if the problem is with the measurements given for each station rather than with my own humble handiwork. Have any of you encountered this discrepancy in the height from baseline-to-bedlog in your boat in the mid stations and if so how did you handle it?
A concerned parent in Winston

Builder posted 04-03-2003 06:04 PM
Pearse: I'll start here with the corrections that were sent to me by Wooden Boat awhile after I bought my plans. They stated that they had discovered errors in the table of offsets on Sheet #8. Corrected offsets for the far right column, Heights: Base to top of bedlogare as follows.
Station Measurement
11 36-1/16
12 35-13/16
13 35-1/2
14 35-1/4
15 35-1/16
16 34-13/16
Now these may be the figures that came with your set of plans and what you used. If not then at least this could be what caused your problem. Now to solve your problem. I've had my share of difficulties too and I always refer to Harold "Dynamite" Payson. "This is a boat you're building not a temple to the god of split hairs so 'Don't worry about it' ". In other words If you can glue a wood shim on to the floors to raise the trunk I'd do it.... or perhaps if the amount to be raised is uniform glue a strip on each side of the trunk on the bed log.This would seem the best to me as the strip would have good size thus not quite as prone to splitting from the bolt holes. You could hot glue a trial strip, see if it works and then do it for real. Perhaps there is a better solution out there but I hope this is a start. Good luck Jack 
Pearse Morris
Builder posted 04-07-2003 05:16 PM
Thanks everybody for your help on this latest vexation.

Pearse Morris
Builder posted 04-07-2003 05:19 PM
Thanks Jack, I did not have the corrections in my plans, but I will keep them for my next boat. My impression is that the correction necessary was even greater than the dimensions you gave but the balance may have been my shoddy work. Nevertheless it is very frustrating to have these errors in the plans. I STRONGLE ADVISE newcomers to note Jack's correction figures and to incorporate them into your table of offsets.

Hey Bill. I haven't heard of anyone building the Haven having problems with these frames. Now frame #10 is a different story. This is the area of the bedlogs where the height above the construction base line has to be right. It's been several years since I planked my boat but this is what I remember. I don't recall marking planking stations on the stem, but I will go back and look at the drawings. This is what I remember though......Planking dimensions where give for various station numbers. I laid these out and used a true batten to mark all the frames after getting a fair line. This line carried over to the stem. The foremost plank ends had to be pressed down into the rabbet. The hood ends where spiled to get the correct shape and then fine cut as the plank was fitted into the rabbet. I can't picture in my mind exactly what you are talking about. If you have faired all the molds and frames, have the construction base level fore and aft, set the frames at 90 degrees to the construction base and are holding the top of the floor timber according to the spec's given, I can't understand why there is a problem. Maybe you can give us some more details or post a picture..... Paul posted 08-09-2001

Bill, I will try to look at the plans tonight and see if I can follow what you are saying. Don't get frustrated! I fussed with that frame #10 for days until I did just like it said in the book. Hold the fore and aft heights above the construction base, shim as necessary (or something like that). I can tell you there will be more instances like this and you will have to decide when and where you want to make your judgement calls. Keep in mind that there is another set of frames that will be added after the planking hung and you have her right side up......Paul posted 08-09-2001

posted 11-15-2006 01:01 PM
Gene spotted this one:

Step 93, p. 23 shows a photograph of a mold supporting the centerboard trunk. The mold appears to have the number "10" on it.
The plans indicate that molds 11 through 16 are notched for the CB trunk. Mold No. 10 is the next mold forward of No. 11 but does not have a notch.

Am I fretting needlessly about a random scribbling or am I missing something.


Good catch Gene! That "10" is actually written on frame #11.


5.)  Sheer

Wednesday, 7 November 2007 07:30



I've got eight planks done on each side and have been trying to understand some of the points in the manual regarding the sheerstrakes. Two questions for you all:

1. Maynard Bray states: "...the sheerline... is the OUTSIDE corner of the plank, not the inside one. Thus, because of the hull's flare, extra wood- often called "beveling wood" - will have to be figured into the shaping and positioning of the sheerstrakes." What does this mean? Is he talking about backing-out when he's talking about the hull's flare? If he means the INSIDE top edge sticks out farther than the outside edge because of the angle of the planks to the deck then this wood will need to be taken off, not added as he suggests.

2. My planks up to the sheer have had to be backed-out. Some of the frames have a curve to them at the sheer and I could also back them out, but this adds to the problem of getting a nice "swell" in the plank. I could flatten the frames so there is no need to back out. What have other people done? Any thoughts?

Thanks for the help.


Tom Flatley Wednesday, 7 November 2007 11:09
You have it right about the angle of the planks to the deck. It is not consistent. There are some points were the outside edge is higher and some where the inside is higher. You just need to make sure that there is some extra wood to trim the top level. If not, there will be a gap between the shearplank and the decking. I used a 2x6 with sandpaper stapled to one of the sides and used this to sand the shearplanks level with each other. The board stretched across from one side to the other and I put a level on it to see if it was level. If it wasn't I would sand a little more. These were some areas that needed a lot of sanding and that's where you see whether you are sanding the outer edge or the inner edge.

6.)  Stem Bolts

Jeff Ambrose  Sunday, 5 April 2009

The plans call for inch bolts on the stem on the full size plans, (sheet 7) but 5/16 on the construction drawing on sheet 5.


Entries from the old Forum have been compiled into a "Variations From Plans" document which you can
download and print out as a Word document HERE.

Or you can view it as a web page at HERE

It is by no means complete. Send me an email or post here additional items which should be included in this document and it will be updated periodically. This document will allow new builders to benefit from our learning experiences and save them some grief!